Game: What game are you currently playing??

[Animeniax]

Always hiding behind the race card. You people, I tell you what. Anyways, go play Sleeping Dogs and you'll see it's GTA3:Chinatown.

And with developers like you, I'm sure we'll see many more failed game franchises or blatant ripoffs that "borrow" heavily from other games and their source code. You'll be writing code for some shit app company soon enough. Meanwhile I'll be a police officer keeping the streets safe so nerds like you can walk around while laying down mad rep on forums on your phone.

[Kraco]

Alright, this was amusing for a time for an outsider, and looking at the spirited posts, it must have been entertaining to the participants as well, but in the long run it won't serve the purpose of this thread. So, it will stop here.

Addition: I also won't tolerate continuing it masked under flimsy references to the topic.

[KrayZ33]

A port is something that gets done after the main build is completed,

thats not true :/

development is done on a lead platform, every other platform it gets released on is a port.

its not so wise to assume they designed a console and a PC version, who wants to pay for that?
its also more likely for developers to upgrade their lead-version for the PC rather than downgrading it for consoles.

[Kraco]

its also more likely for developers to upgrade their lead-version for the PC rather than downgrading it for consoles.

What's the basis for this? While I have no other experience than some medium heavy game modding years ago, I'd think it could be easier to downgrade than upgrade game material. You can always reduce polycount of models and resolution of textures or remove details (models, effects, texture shaders, realtime lighting) from scenes even using automatic methods, but there're no automatic methods for increasing anything I mentioned. Removing is easy, adding is hard work, yet if you must have a better PC version, there's no alternative to that hard work. If you do it anyway, why not do it and then afterwards keep removing from the default as much as is necessary for the inferior console versions to run?

[Animeniax]

What's the basis for this? While I have no other experience than some medium heavy game modding years ago, I'd think it could be easier to downgrade than upgrade game material. You can always reduce polycount of models and resolution of textures or remove details (models, effects, texture shaders, realtime lighting) from scenes even using automatic methods, but there're no automatic methods for increasing anything I mentioned. Removing is easy, adding is hard work, yet if you must have a better PC version, there's no alternative to that hard work. If you do it anyway, why not do it and then afterwards keep removing from the default as much as is necessary for the inferior console versions to run?

I think you have it right, as far as Sleeping Dogs goes.

Originally the PC port was going to be left as is, ie the same as the console versions and not taking advantage of all the potential power of various PC configurations. But the thing with Sleeping Dogs that makes the development of the PC version so unique is that the publisher encouraged and supported the PC development of the game to be all it could be, rather than your run-of-the-mill port. Here's hoping it's a trend instead of a one-off exception, and the PC makes a comeback as a gaming platform, rather than an afterthought.

[KrayZ33]

What's the basis for this? While I have no other experience than some medium heavy game modding years ago, I'd think it could be easier to downgrade than upgrade game material. You can always reduce polycount of models and resolution of textures or remove details (models, effects, texture shaders, realtime lighting) from scenes even using automatic methods, but there're no automatic methods for increasing anything I mentioned. Removing is easy, adding is hard work, yet if you must have a better PC version, there's no alternative to that hard work. If you do it anyway, why not do it and then afterwards keep removing from the default as much as is necessary for the inferior console versions to run?

2 reasons I can think off right now

1. games sell like 5 times better on consoles, if they are released on all platforms, so why even bother with fancy stuff, people will pick up the inferior version anyway
2. hardware issues, no one can disagree that its alot harder to optimize for the PC... console hardware is always the same, so you can optimize the game for those... also the hardware is pretty "weak" compared to modern PCs so you can go higher without fears from there if you want to take it to the PC.

thats what I'd do :/

[darkshadow]

Uhh no, "lead platform" has no significance other than ease of universal compatibility when it's used in concurrent development.
If an engine (like UE3) has all the tools to export a version to different platforms, then the only significance "lead platform" has is which one has the latest build; all exported platforms should have all their appropriate optimisations and should run accordingly.

Only when the "lead platform" is indeed the only version does it concern porting; bayonetta is an excellent example of this, where only the 360 version existed in-house at P* and sega handled the ps3 version.

[Ryllharu]

How would that work for a game like Skyrim, where both console versions were made in house, but the PS3 one is the exceptionally buggy POS version?

[darkshadow]

I'd say that's the same situation as with Valve, I'd chalk that up to the engine simply not being capable of fully taking advantage of the ps3 hardware. Even if ps3 was the "lead platform", it would still run like ass if the engine was coded in the same way as it is now.
Basically for a proper ps3 version they'd have to rewrite the engine from scratch to include dedicated ps3 optimisations.
Or, as valve has been doing, slowly add in this support with each new build.

In bethesda's case however, I do think the ps3 versions are ports, since they always say how they have issues with the ps3's memory architecture; and with the delays on ps3 dlc I think that frankenstein gamebryo engine they are using simply has no support for the ps3 architecture and they simply do the porting in-house.

[Ryllharu]

The "Creation Engine" isn't Gamebryo...
How do I know? Because the bugs aren't as weird, amusing, and entertaining. Just mildly annoying.

They've mentioned the memory issues as part of the reasons that Dawnguard hasn't yet and likely never will come out on the PS3, or and DLC for that matter.

[darkshadow]

It's not a port, it never was.

[Animeniax]

Agree to disagree. In reading up on it, there are some who think like you that the term "port" is overused and mis-representative of how games are developed for different systems. But I found many more in the industry who are fine with using the term as it is mostly used.

[darkshadow]

You don't honestly believe they make the assets spec'd perfectly for the hardware right?
Do you think this thing is what you see in-game?
http://epicgames.com/community/wp-co...oredkantus.jpg
No, assets are -always- made in a higher resolution than what ends up in the game, even higher than what's in pc games.
Simply cause working on a texture with a 512x512 space sucks ass compared to working on it at 4kx4k; this way you can also always just go back to the master copy and downgrade accordingly if you need more detail.

Like Kraco said, adding detail, especially with textures, is a fucking nightmare if you weren't working with high res smart objects and vectors which is mostly the case if you have to paint/brush in details.

[KrayZ33]

that was not what I was going for
I don't think I said anything like that
and I don't get what exactly you are trying to tell me there



basically if you say kraco is correct, you are are telling me its easier to build something in full detail and then remove the details - than build it with less detail in the first place... and if I want to spice things up I could always add the details later

[Kraco]

basically if you say kraco is correct, you are are telling me its easier to build something in full detail and then remove the details - than build it with less detail in the first place... and if I want to spice things up I could always add the details later

I just oversimplified the process in my post to make my point clearer.

[darkshadow]

Oh..so you didn't say this?:

1. games sell like 5 times better on consoles, if they are released on all platforms, so why even bother with fancy stuff, people will pick up the inferior version anyway

If you can't see how my post is a direct reply to that, then you are as intellectually challenged as animeniax.

[KrayZ33]

im sorry that my point didn't get over

[darkshadow]

Why the fuck did you edit your post after replying to me instead of just posting that shit as a reply...fucking worthless.

basically if you say kraco is correct, you are are telling me its easier to build something in full detail and then remove the details

Kraco is correct and I'm not telling you it's easier, I'm telling you that's how it already is being done; why the fuck do you think I linked the picture of the 100 million+ polygon model for GOW3? That polycount is more than an entire scene in Crysis 2.

.. and if I want to spice things up I could always add the details later

Did you completely ignore my post? I clearly said:

adding detail, especially with textures, is a fucking nightmare if you weren't working with high res smart objects and vectors which is mostly the case if you have to paint/brush in details

[Animeniax]

Good lord can't you argue a point without getting your panties all in a wad? If what you're saying is correct, which I'm sure is not, then why are games not released on PC with any greater quality and frequency than they currently are? Why do PC ports almost always suck compared to their console counterparts? If the game can be played on PC in high res with a lot of detail, why aren't they released on PC as more than an afterthought? Because they're developed for the consoles and their much weaker hardware specs. They are ported to the PC to grab a few extra dollars.

I think you're extrapolating what you learned at your little design school in Holland (what would equate to a community college here in the states) and think that's how it's done in the industry. Seems counter-intuitive to do things the way you insist they are being done.

[Xelbair]

I think you're extrapolating what you learned at your little design school in Holland (what would equate to a community college here in the states) and think that's how it's done in the industry. Seems counter-intuitive to do things the way you insist they are being done.

Sadly you are damn wrong - that one is one of better universities in EU. Not only in that part - generally in everything in this thread lately.