Bombs in London

[DB_Hunter]

That's why I'm saying by both sides bombing the crap out of each other be it via F-18 or underground bomb is only going to continue the cycle of violence. The crux of the matter is that of you look at what's going on more closey you will see that there is really a fundemental war of ideas going on between, and lets be open about this, the West and Islam. To be really clear, lets use the term capitalism and Islam, since the word West is very general and refers to all people in the West regardless of their personal view.

If this war between ideas is not resolved, then the bloodshed will continue. And this isn't something as basic as you don't belive in my God, its more ideological. It's a war where two fundemetally different ways of life are meeting and they are meeting head on. They cannot tolerate the existance of the other, just like in the Cold War, due to their expansionist nature. There are people on both sides with their aims and objectives, and some of them will use physical means to achieve their objectives. In my view violence is counter productive, and should not be used.

At the end of the day if we avoid examining these ideas and be ready and willing to approach them with an open mind then whether or not we as individuals pick up a gun and fire will not change the fact that our actions will cause ignorance in the world to prevail and thus result in more unnecesary killing.

Before anyone points out that I havn't actually pointed out the differences between Islam and Capitalism, or infact why both capitalism and Islam can be spoken of on equal terms, then PM me. People have written books upon books on issues like these and I'm not going to start writing a book in this thread.

[stos289]

According to this site, it's been confirmed that the Al-Qaeda group located in Europe was the cause of the bombings. Also, it states that based off an Al-Qaeda website, Italy and Denmark are the next targets. Let's hope that we can take counter measures in order to stop these events from occuring.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: DB_Hunter
If this war between ideas is not resolved, then the bloodshed will continue. And this isn't something as basic as you don't belive in my God, its more ideological. It's a war where two fundemetally different ways of life are meeting and they are meeting head on. They cannot tolerate the existance of the other, just like in the Cold War, due to their expansionist nature. There are people on both sides with their aims and objectives, and some of them will use physical means to achieve their objectives. In my view violence is counter productive, and should not be used.

The risk of not fighting back is completely suicidal. We might as well ask them to bend all of us over and have their way. So are you saying, that if a guy tried to mug you with a gun, and you had a gun yourself, you're not going to use it on him and instead, ask him to think it over? Although this comparison is on a WAY smaller scale, it's the same principle and concept. If they're going to threaten us, why should we need to be the 'bigger man' in hope of succeeding from the miniscule possibility of peace when the consequence could be ten times worse if we do?

At the end of the day if we avoid examining these ideas and be ready and willing to approach them with an open mind then whether or not we as individuals pick up a gun and fire will not change the fact that our actions will cause ignorance in the world to prevail and thus result in more unnecesary killing.

So, these individuals who killed thousands of people should be offered peace? Sorry, this isn't Batman. Revenge is pretty much what we're after right now and those terrorists deserve it. You're grabbing on to a hopless, narrow-minded idealistic view. If people are capable of causing chaos this large, they're in the category of CRAZY and words aren't gonna get through to them. Besides, it's not like it's ever going to reduce the casualties anyway.

Originally posted by: DB_Hunter
I'm talking about Afghanistan. The afghan fighters wander the mountain tops in their damn sandals.

lol wow. Please don't tell me you didn't think I was talking about Vietnamese soldiers/vigilantees.

Anyway, stop saying they're just people on sandals. They got GUNS, BOMBS, MISSILES AND ROCKETS. DUHHH.

You miss the point, and are being condescending in putting forward the we-nuke-each-other-the-whole-world-goes-to-hell argument. The point is the US and the USSR were not prepared to die for their ideals, the very same ideals the fight to enforce on weaker countries acting so righteous.

But the whole world does go to hell. The US is a large part of the world's economy. A failing economy is worse than a nuclear war.

And I'm not anti-war per se, just anti-"but we are rich and powerful so our ideas must be right"...

But that's how the world works. As much as every peace-lover says that achieving and maintaining peace is important, ultimately, we're all looking for world dominance whether it's by force, physically, or technologically. That's just the nature of humans.

[DB_Hunter]

The risk of not fighting back is completely suicidal. We might as well ask them to bend all of us over and have their way. So are you saying, that if a guy tried to mug you with a gun, and you had a gun yourself, you're not going to use it on him and instead, ask him to think it over? Although this comparison is on a WAY smaller scale, it's the same principle and concept. If they're going to threaten us, why should we need to be the 'bigger man' in hope of succeeding from the miniscule possibility of peace when the consequence could be ten times worse if we do?

I agree with your example and concept. However, your argument rests on the premisce that 'they' made the first move, which is wrong. Study the UK foreign policy from the 1800's up until now and you have over 200 years of deliberate manouvering and actions. Do the same for US policy post world war 2.

So, these individuals who killed thousands of people should be offered peace? Sorry, this isn't Batman. Revenge is pretty much what we're after right now and those terrorists deserve it. You're grabbing on to a hopless, narrow-minded idealistic view. If people are capable of causing chaos this large, they're in the category of CRAZY and words aren't gonna get through to them. Besides, it's not like it's ever going to reduce the casualties anyway.

Hmm... you know what you said could be said EXACTLY word for word by people on either side? You just proved my point that if you just look at what people do devoid of the reasons as to why they do them you aint gonna get anywhere. And just because something may be hard to do or may take a long time doesn't mean its wrong.

And excuse me for saying so but 'they won't ever listen'???? And did you learn this bit of world poltics and history form the likes of bush, rumsfeld, perle, cheney, wolfowitz and co?